What do the candidates really think?

[Clinotus]

I'm starting this thread for a few choice quotes that I pick up from time to time on the internet about the actual viewpoints and feelings of some of our candidates.

I invite you to join me with a quote or two, and if possible provide a link back to or a source for your quote.

I'll start off with this gem from Rudy Giuliani:
We look upon authority too often and focus over and over again, for 30 or 40 or 50 years, as if there is something wrong with authority. We see only the oppressive side of authority. Maybe it comes out of our history and our background. What we don't see is that freedom is not a concept in which people can do anything they want, be anything they can be. Freedom is about authority. Freedom is about the willingness of every single human being to cede to lawful authority a great deal of discretion about what you do. Source (http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpage.html?res=9A01E2D9173CF933A15750C0A9629582 60&sec=&spon=)


Mitt Romney quipped,
But our focus has to be on preventing an attack, and preventing attack means good intelligence work. It means if people are coming to this country terrorizing or talking about terror in such a way that it could lead to the violent death of Americans, we need to know about that, track them, follow them, and make sure that in every way we can we know what they’re doing and where they’re doing it. And if it means we have to go into a mosque to wiretap or a church, then that’s exactly where we’re going to go because we’re going to do whatever it takes to protect the American people.

And I hear from time to time people say, hey, wait a second, we have civil liberties we have to worry about. But don’t forget the most important civil liberty I expect from my government is my right to be kept alive, and that’s what we’re going to have to do.Source (http://www.cfr.org/publication/14142/republican_debate_transcript_new_hampshire.html)

[Scarecrow411]

That Giuliani quote rubs me the wrong way:


Freedom is about the willingness of every single human being to cede to lawful authority a great deal of discretion about what you do.

Americans should have a healthy suspicion of authority. Lawful authority sure, but the law isn't always right. When what's "lawful" impinges on your personal freedoms do you still submit to the authority? I guess that's one of the strange facets of the second amendment - it allows for anyone to resist what they perceive as unlawful or tyrannical oppression. It's up to society to dictate what those perceptions are.

Fred Thompson:


How is it that one man with two handguns could reload time & time again, and go from classroom to classroom on the Virginia Tech campus without being stopped. Much of the answer can be found in policies put in place by the university itself.

Virginia allows citizens with training and legal permits to carry concealed weapons. That means that Virginians regularly sit in movie theaters and eat in restaurants among armed citizens...

Source (http://abcradionetworks.com/article.asp?id=389928&SPID=15663)

There are two common paths taken in reaction to tragedy. One is to attempt to make sure it never happens again. The other is to make sure we can respond efficiently should it ever happen again. Humans are as flawed as they are crafty so it's nigh impossible to stop a tragedy like this from occurring - even without guns people did it with bombs (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bath_School_disaster), knives (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Osaka_school_massacre), etc (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cologne_school_massacre). Gun's aren't the answer - but they're part of the answer. Leadership that doesn't handicap the peoples ability to respond to adverse conditions makes me happy.

[MuttonChops]

Guiliani scares me. If someone can say that in public whilst trying to win public hearts and minds, they can do much worse in office.

[Fang]

Guiliani scares me. If someone can say that in public whilst trying to win public hearts and minds, they can do much worse in office.

Giuliani is decent as European politicians go, but that sort of attitude is unequivocally un-american.

[Nitrogen]

Let's look at the democrats. If you are a liberal like me, you get to choose between bad, awful, or horrible.



Q: How would you address gun violence that continues to be the #1 cause of death among African-American men?

A: You know, when the massacre happened at Virginia Tech, I think all of us were grief stricken and shocked by the carnage. But in this year alone, in Chicago, we've had 34 Chicago public school students gunned down and killed. And for the most part, there has been silence. We know what to do. We've got to enforce the gun laws that are on the books. We've got to make sure that unscrupulous gun dealers aren't loading up vans and dumping guns in our communities, because we know they're not made in our communities. There aren't any gun manufacturers here, right here in the middle of Detroit. But what we also have to do is to make sure that we change our politics so that we care just as much about those 30-some children in Chicago who've been shot as we do the children in Virginia Tech. That's a mindset that we have to have in the White House and we don't have it right now.

---

I believe in keeping guns out of our inner cities, and that our leaders must say so in the face of the gun manfuacturer's lobby. But I also believe that when a gangbanger shoots indiscriminately into a crowd because he feels someone disrespected him, we have a problem of morality. Not only do ew need to punish thatman for his crime, but we need to acknowledge that there's a hole in his heart, one that government programs alone may not be able to repair.
Source: The Audacity of Hope, by Barack Obama, p.215 Oct 1, 2006

---

* Ban the sale or transfer of all forms of semi-automatic weapons.
* Increase state restrictions on the purchase and possession of firearms.
* Require manufacturers to provide child-safety locks with firearms.

Source: 1998 IL State Legislative National Political Awareness Test Jul 2, 1998

---





[only including the "best" here:
Get assault weapons & guns off the street. (Jul 2007)
# Background check system could prevent Virginia Tech massacre. (Apr 2007)
# FactCheck: VA Tech shooter not declared a danger to others. (Apr 2007)
Congress' failure at Littleton response inspired Senate run. (Nov 2003)
License and register all handgun sales. (Jun 2000)
Tough gun control keeps guns out of wrong hands. (Jul 1999)
Gun control protects our children. (Jul 1999)

So yes, she's terrible.

Q: Did any role that federal government plays fail those students at Virginia Tech?

A: Yes. You know, I remember very well when I accompanied Bill to Columbine after that massacre and met with the family members of those who had been killed and talked with the students, and feeling that we had to do more to try to keep guns out of the hands of the criminal and of the mentally unstable. And during the Clinton administration, that was a goal--not to, in any way, violate people's Second Amendment rights, but to try to limit access to people who should not have guns. Unfortunately, we saw the tragedy unfold at Virginia Tech. We now know that the background check system didn't work, because certainly this shooter, as he's called, had been involuntarily committed as a threat to himself and others. And, yet, he could walk in and buy a gun.
Source: 2007 South Carolina Democratic primary debate, on MSNBC Apr 26, 2007

FactCheck: VA Tech shooter not declared a danger to others
Hillary Clinton slipped up in her description of the Virginia Tech killings, overstating what a Virginia court had found about the shooter's mental state in 2005. Clinton said the shooter "had been involuntarily committed as a threat to himself & others. And, yet, he could walk in and buy a gun."

That's only half true. It's correct that Seung-hui Cho had a court-documented history of mental illness that should have precluded his purchase of a firearm. And he was indeed found to present "an imminent danger to himself as a result of mental illness" in a ruling dated December 14, 2005. But the Judge did not check a box that would have declared Cho "an imminent danger to others." Moreover, the judge declined to involuntarily commit Cho and sent him to outpatient counseling. Clinton's confusion on this might stem from bad reporting by some news outlets that said Cho was found to be a danger to himself and others.

---

Hillary Rodham Clinton offered her support for a legislative proposal to license hand guns. The legislation, sponsored by Sen. Charles Schumer, would require anyone who wants to purchase a gun to obtain a state-issued photo gun license. “I stand in support of this common sense legislation to license everyone who wishes to purchase a gun,” Clinton said. “I also believe that every new handgun sale or transfer should be registered in a national registry, such as Chuck is proposing.”
Source: CNN.com Jun 2, 2000

---

We will not make progress on a sensible gun control agenda unless the entire American public gets behind it. It is really important for each of you [kids] to make sure you stay away from guns. If you have guns in your home, tell your parents to keep them away from you and your friends and your little brothers and sisters.




# In rural America, hunting and gun ownership is a way of life. (Sep 2007)
# Don't need AK-47 to hunt; renew assault weapons ban. (Jul 2007)
# Right to bear arms protected by Second Amendment, with rules. (Mar 2004)
# Hunting is fine, but criminals & kids should have limits. (Jan 2004)
# Leading Dems distance themselves from divisive gun debate. (Oct 2003)
# Guns are about independence-don't mess with that. (Oct 2003)
# Voted YES on background checks at gun shows. (May 1999)
# Voted NO on more penalties for gun & drug violations. (May 1999)
# Voted NO on loosening license & background checks at gun shows. (May 1999

John edwards seems better than most, but not good enough.

Protecting Lawful Gun Ownership:
In small towns across America, hunting and gun ownership is a way of life. John Edwards believes that law-abiding citizens have the right to defend their families and respects the long American tradition of hunting. We can protect Second Amendment gun rights while also stopping criminals from using guns. Edwards will protect the right of law-abiding citizens to participate in gun shows, while ensuring all that all weapons sold there are subject to an instant check.

--

I believe the right to bear arms is protected by the Second Amendment. I also support reasonable measures to keep guns out of the hands of criminals, including closing the gun show loophole and vigorously enforcing gun laws.

---

"It's very important for us as Democrats to understand that where I come from guns are about a lot more than guns themselves," said John Edwards. "They are about independence. For a lot of people who work hard for a living, one of the few things they feel they have any control over is whether they can buy a gun and hunt. They don't want people messing with that, which I understand."
Source: Jim VandeHei, Washington Post, p. A1 Oct 26, 2003


Edwards is probably your best bet for a democrat that has any chance at all of winning. Best being, only 10 feet below sea level instead of 100 feet.



By far the worst of the bunch.

We have babies dying in the streets; ban handguns. (Jul 2007)
Ban sale or transfer of semi-automatic guns. (Nov 2006)

A: I was mayor of Cleveland and I grew up in the city and you could sometimes hear gunshots as part of the music of the night. We know that there's a Virginia Tech happening in this country every day. At least 32 people are killed every day with handguns. We know that over a period of 100 days, as many people are killed by handguns as died in 9/11 in this country. We know that there is a crisis of public safety and security. We have babies dying in the streets because of these handguns. Now, we've got to give a direct answer. It is time that we ban handguns. We have to do that in order to protect our cities. It is time that we took a position that says that the 14th Amendment, you know, that right to life, liberty, is just as important as the 2nd Amendment. It's time that we took a stand on behalf of the health and safety of the American people and, as president, I'm ready to do that

Fuck him.

[Capn Beeb]

As a resident of Virginia, I want to cause serious and potentially fatal harm to anyone who says "There's a Virginia Tech happening" in a serious manner. What a faggot. Also, none of these clowns strike me as vote worthy, god damn this is a broken year :(

[mad.radhu]

As a resident of Virginia, I want to cause serious and potentially fatal harm to anyone who says "There's a Virginia Tech happening" in a serious manner. What a faggot. Also, none of these clowns strike me as vote worthy, god damn this is a broken year :(

If you think this year is bad, just wait until they next one, one of these people is actually going to get elected.

[Capn Beeb]

Yeah that's what I was implying.

[Clinotus]

Not so sure about Edwards.


There are problems with the instant background check system that we have today. That needs to be fixed. Those problems became obvious with the shooting at Virginia Tech. There are other things that need to be done, like closing the gun show loophole, and I believe in the Second Amendment, but I don't believe you need an AK-47 to hunt. And I think we need to renew the assault weapons ban for that reason. But I also want to join in the idea that in addition to guns specifically and trying to do something to limit gun violence, we also need to create hope for so many young African-American men who think they're either going to die or go to prison. They don't see any hope whatsoever in their lives, which means we need to bring good jobs into the inner city so that they can support themselves, support their families.

Source (http://www.ontheissues.org/Archive/2007_NAACP_Primary_Gun_Control.htm)

[Nitrogen]

Edwards at least pays the best lip service to it.

Whoever gets elected, we're fucked. It's either guns, or science.

[Scarecrow411]

Yeah, we're going to have a dry spell ahead of us. I just don't see republicans pulling it of.

[Nitrogen]

And they don't deserve to.

They've thorougly helped gut the constitution. I hope after they lick their wounds, they come back as a party I can consider voting for with pride, instead of a party I'll vote for, holding my nose and holding a vomit bucket.

[Tetraptous]

And they don't deserve to.

They've thorougly helped gut the constitution. I hope after they lick their wounds, they come back as a party I can consider voting for with pride, instead of a party I'll vote for, holding my nose and holding a vomit bucket.

Agreed. I just hope, thanks in large part to much better organization of gun owners, that Democrats still see gun control as an election losing issue once they take over government in the next elections. They have nothing to gain (other than the usual suspects from California and NY) by going after gun owners and everything to loose. There's so many other "hot" issues to pursue that are generally popular right now, from Iraq and military spending to healthcare and carbon emissions. All stuff the Democrats come out strong on in the eye of the public.

[voodoorootbeer]

The other day somebody brought up the idea that Fred Thompson was extremely pro-gun, but wasn't as hardcore Republican as the other candidates in his stances on other issues. Are there any worthwhile sources to support this idea? Or is he just another schmuck fag-hating, arab-bombing Republican?

[AngryJackal]

Let's just hope more Blue Dog Democrats like Senator Jim Webb are elected to Congress. I <3 Jim Webb

[Clinotus]

NOUN?
VERB?


911 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I3tt8dniJXc)

[Nitrogen]

The other day somebody brought up the idea that Fred Thompson was extremely pro-gun, but wasn't as hardcore Republican as the other candidates in his stances on other issues. Are there any worthwhile sources to support this idea? Or is he just another schmuck fag-hating, arab-bombing Republican?

My feeling is that he's an empty suit, much like Obama. He's a schmuck that does exactly what his advisors and focus groups tell him to do.

[Cyrano 4747]

I'm sure I'll just end up finding a nice, hopeless third party candidate that I can vote for with a clean conscience. After the last election I refuse to hold my nose and pick a candidate who I KNOW sucks just so some other guy who I hate more doesn't get in.

Fuck that. That's exactly why our system is broken and I won't participate in continuing that trend any more.

It might be a futile pointless gesture, but I'm going to go find a candidate I like who represents a majority of my views and vote for them. Maybe I'll help them or their party get some federal funds for the next election.

[Kovac]

Looking from the outside in. You all seem fucked to me both sides have slective reading when it comes to the consitution. One side doesnt get the whole second ammendment bit, the other side jumps and dances on seperation of church and state for shits and giggles. This is where voter apthy comes from

[TenementFunster]

hahaha yeah Rudy is pretty obviously a complete fucking authoritarian, but all republican candidates are equally awful in their own special way. Mitt is the GOP Clinton, only worse, because his politics are totally beyond redemption and he's a cultist. Huckabee is a theocrat and an credulous fool. Paul is a sociopath, and all his supporters are ignorant of his actual positions or as crazy as he is and/or white supremacists.



if you are a registered republican voting for anybody but McCain you are a fundamentally damaged/perverted person. people who support torture have no place in the 21st century, and people who think that today's immigrants shouldn't have as easy a time entering this country as their ancestors did is a worthless hypocrite.

[Clinotus]

Is Rudy even running anymore?




“Dr. King’s dream began to be realized when President Lyndon Johnson passed the Civil Rights Act of 1964. It took a president to get it done.”

Some one should have told the hundreds of civil rights supporters and those who gave up their lives that their efforts where in vain.

[T-White]

NOUN?
VERB?


911 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I3tt8dniJXc)

Guh...I really do hate politicians...