The Mosin-Nagant Megathread

[highmeh]

Way back in the good ol' days, I wrote up a Mosin-Nagant Megathread.
There have since been lots of questions and lately a few people have
posted in threads that someone should re-do it. Well, here it is, in all
it's glory! Add as you see fit. Some links may be broken.
--------------------

Welcome to the MOSIN-NAGANT RIFLE MEGATHREAD

Due to a ridiculously overwhelming amount of “How do I Mosin Nagant?”
threads appearing lately, I’ve decided we need to locate as much
information as possible into one thread. Feel free to add info, ask
questions, correct answers, or just call me an asshole.


SHOULD I BUY A MOSIN-NAGANT?
Yes. Mosin-Nagant rifles are cheap (Ive seen them as low as $40 and as
high as a few hundred. Average is around $70.) and reliable. They’re
damned near indestructible and pretty damned accurate.

WHAT KIND OF AMMUNITION DO I USE?
Mosin-Nagants of all varieties shoot 7.62x54r ammunition. NO THE R DOES
NOT STAND FOR RUSSIAN. It stands for “Rimmed.” If you’re just plinking
or shooting in the desert/woods, get a huge and inexpensive box of
Military Surplus ammunition. Typically you can get around 700rnds for
around 70 bucks. Do your homework and look around the following sites:

http://www.cheaperthandirt.com
http://www.ammoman.com
http://www.ammunitionstore.com
http://www.sportsmansguide.com

:siren: Keep in mind that military surplus ammunition is corrosive and
can cause damage to your barrel in the long-term. Clean your rifle
properly and promptly after each day of shooting. :siren:

Some ranges require that you shoot ammunition that is not steel-cased.
In this case, check out the Wolf ammo on the above sites. Typical prices
for Wolf are $6-8 for 20rnds.

MY FRIEND SAYS MOSIN-NAGANT RIFLES HAVE HUGE MUZZLE FLASHES AND ARE
LOUD AS HELL
Depending on the model rifle and ammunition, this can be true. The M44
is the shorter “Carbine” version with an integrated bayonet. The M44
tends to have the largest “muzzle flash” and loudest boom. You’ll
definitely get looks if you’re shooting at a range. The longer rifles
also have admirable flashes and are quite loud. If you really want to
fuck up someone’s concentration, get an M44.

User Shootme's M44 Muzzle Flash: http://beaniam.com/m44.gif

THAT SAME FRIEND SAID THAT MOSIN-NAGANTS KICK LIKE A FREAKIN MULE.
CONFIRM/DENY
The recoil on Mosin-Nagants varies greatly from person to person. It is
not uncontrollable, but can be rather unexpected. As long as you’re
shooting properly, you shouldn’t get too beat to hell. I would
personally compare shooting Milsurp ammo out of an M44 to shooting
target shot out of a 12 gauge. Your Mileage May Vary.

HOW DO YOU PRONOUNCE “MOSIN-NAGANT?”
MO-seen Nah-GON. Or, as regulars on #Thefiringrange refer to it:
“MOOOOOOOOOOOSIN” (not recommended.)

I FIRED MY M44 TODAY AND IT LOOKED LIKE IT WAS SIGHTED VERY POORLY.
ALL MY SHOTS ENDED UP TO THE FAR LFET
Mosin-Nagant M44s were originally sighted with the bayonet out. Unlike
91/30s or M38s, the M44 bayonet is not removable (easily). Extend the
bayonet and fire again. You should be closer to your mark.

SAME QUESTION, BUT WITH A DIFFERENT MODEL MOSIN
All soldiers were ordered to keep their bayonet affixed any time except
while in travel. As such, there is an extremely high chance that your
mosin with a detachable bayonet was sighted "bayonet-on." Attaching a
bayonet may aid accuracy, but don't bank too much on it.

I WANNA BE A MOSIN SNYPA. WHAT SHOULD I GET?
Generally the Finnish Mosin-Nagants are most accurate The M28 and M39
are also very accurate.

I JUST BOUGHT MY MOSIN-NAGANT AND THERE IS GRAVY ON IT.
No, that’s Cosmoline. Cosmoline is Communism’s cruel little joke (note:
yes, its far more widely used than just on communist rifles. Shut up.).
The most effective way of removing Cosmoline is by steaming it off, then
spot-cleaning afterwards. Detailed directions that I am too lazy to type
out can be found here: http://www.surplusrifle.com/

I WANT TO DISASSEMBLE AND CLEAN MY BOLT.
Click here first.
http://www.surplusrifle.com/videowmv/nagant100.wmv

HOW DOES A MOSIN-NAGANT WORK INTERNALLY?
See here for a very detailed movie:
http://flash.surpasshosting.com/~highmeh/guns/mosin.avi
[RIGHT-CLICK, SAVE AS.]

I WANT STRIPPER CLIPS
Check gun shows, e-Bay, and http://froogle.google.com They
run anywhere from .50 to $2 each. Their effectiveness and usefulness is
widely debated. As long as you load them right (See the rim on the
bullets in the above movie. Notice how they’re stacked on the stripper
clip? Do that.) They work rather well. Careful not to shred the
everloving shit out of your hand. Note that you should avoid the stamped
sheet metal stripper clips, as they do everything (including bending and
jamming) except load the bullets. (Thanks Shootme)

THE BOLT ON MY MOSIN-NAGANT STICKS AFTER FIRING! WHAT CAN I DO?
First off, ensure that your headspace is correct. If so, the problem can
be narrowed down to an anomoly/burr in the chamber, or additional
cosmoline/dirt in the chamber. In either instance, check here for very
detailed instructions: http://www.surplusrifle.com/


I DEMAND A MOSIN. WHERE CAN I PURCHASE ONE?
If you live on the west coast, try Big 5 Sporting Goods. They have
weekly sales on military surplus rifles, many of the times featuring
Mosin-Nagants. They typically sell for $70. Otherwise, head to AIM
Surplus (http://www.aimsurplus.com) and check their stock.
Gun shows are also good bets.


(CONTINUED...)

[highmeh]

(...CONTINUED)

PLEASE IDENTIFY VARIOUS MOSIN-NAGANT RIFLES (Thanks 7.62x54r.net)

Quick Breakdown:
M38 - Carbine without integrated Bayonet
M44 - Carbine with integrated Bayonet
M91/30 - Full Length Rifle, Removable Bayonet (Not too easy, though)
Finnish M39 - Full Length Rifle, Removable Bayonet

Mosin-Nagant M38
http://230grain.com/images/rsrh/m386gy.jpg
"In 1938 a carbine was adopted as the M38, but did not go into
production until 1939. It is essentially a shorter version of the M91/30
and was built at Izhevsk until 1945. There was limited production at
Tula in 1940 and again in 1944. Both arsenals built some M38s on
recycled receivers, both hex and round. Tula M38s are uncommon at the
least and sought after by collectors as are 1939 and 1945 dated
examples. The M38 was not designed to accept a bayonet since it's
intended use was by rear area troops."

Mosin-Nagant M91/30
http://230grain.com/images/rsrh/m91302dh.jpg
In 1930 updates to the Dragoon were adopted and the “new” rifle was
designated the M91/30. Changes included the front and rear sights, split
barrel bands retained by springs, and a round receiver as opposed to the
hexagonal receiver used earlier. These changes didn’t take place
immediately, but were phased in as existing parts were used up and new
machinery was put in place. Hexagonal receivers were used until 1935 and
1936 respectively at Izhevsk and Tula, the two arsenals which produced
the 91/30. Many rifles dated prior to 1930 are found in M91/30
configuration. This is from programs to update older rifles by the
Soviets and they are known in the US as “ex-dragoons”. Primary
production ended in 1944 with few examples, mostly snipers, dated later.
M91/30s were used as the basis for sniper rifles from the mid-‘30s with
several types of mounts and scopes. The most commonly encountered today
is the PU which was adopted in 1942 and uses a side rail mount. Most
Dragoons were updated to M91/30 specifications and will have these
features but retain the original markings on the barrel shank.

Mosin-Nagant M44
http://230grain.com/images/rsrh/m448fs.jpg
In 1943 some 50,000 trials carbines were built and tested in battle.
They are essentially an M38 with an attached side-folding bayonet and
were adopted in 1944 as the M44. Production continued until 1948. As
with the M38, most production occurred at Izhevsk with Tula and hex
receiver examples being less common and more sought after. Minor changes
occurred during M44 production with two primary types of bayonet locking
systems, an early and late type of front sight, and a reversion to "low
wall" production in late ‘45/early ’46.

Mosin-Nagant Finnish M39
http://230grain.com/images/rsrh/m39finn5mf.jpg
In 1939 the Finnish Army and Civil Guard adopted a standard rifle known
as the M39. It is similar to previous models, but with improved barrel
bands and a double sling swivel configuration making it suitable for all
types of troops. It is easily recognized by it’s pistol grip stock
although early stocks are "straight" like the M27, M28, and M28/30. M39s
were produced by SAKO, VKT, and Tikka. Some Sako rifles have the Civil
Guard Sk.Y logo and there are also "B" barrels from Belgium although the
rifles were assembled in Finland. M39s are well known for their accuracy
and were produced for match shooting and training in the late '60s and
early '70s.

Mosin-Nagant 1891
http://230grain.com/images/rsrh/m91russmall0vm.jpg
The M91 was adopted by Russia in 1891 after trials of several repeating
bolt actions. It fires the 7.62x54r cartridge and is a combination of
designs by Russian Sergei Mosin and Belgian Leon Nagant whose primary
contribution was the feed system. The official designation is “3 line
rifle, model 1891”. A “line” is a unit of measure equal to 1/10th of an
inch. Production of the Model 1891 took place at the Russian arsenals at
Izhevsk, Tula, and Sestroryetsk. Due to a slow start in domestic
production a contract was issued to the French arms company
Chatellerault who built around 500,000 M91s. During WWI contracts were
issued to the American firms of New England Westinghouse and Remington
for 1.8 and 1.5 million rifles respectively. M91s were widely used in
WWI and can be found with markings from many different European
countries that purchased or captured them.

Other variations of Mosins exist as well. These are the most common.
Please see http://7.62x54r.net/MosinID/MosinM.htm for
additional models.

IN WHICH OF THE TWO MAJOR ARMORYS WAS MY MOSIN-NAGANT MADE?

http://230grain.com/images/rsrh/armory8xx.jpg
Thanks SurplusRifle.com.

HAY GUYS I PUT ON MY BAYONET AND NOW IT WONT COME OFF!!
This is a very common issue with 91/30s. Please see the following,
courtesy of Veen:


ALSO: BOOKMARK THIS LINK: http://7.62x54r.net

:eek:Discuss.

THE MISSING VEEN POST

veen posted:


The bayonets on the 91/30 were rarely the ones that came with the gun.
We all know that they're often too tight, virtually impossible to
remove, and require you to go outside, find a block of wood or a tree,
and bang the rifle against it over and over to remove it. If you'd like
a quick and easy way to modify that bayonet a bit so that like more
modern rifles, it's quickly removed and attached, here's what you do:

1: Take a power drill and a drill bit that is about a size smaller than
the opening in the bayonet.
2: Take some coarse sandpaper and wrap it around the drill bit, getting
it threaded snugly into the valleys on the drill bit.
3: Fit this down into your bayonet's hole. It should be fairly snug, but
nothing you have to hammer in. A little dab will do you here.
4: Slowly start drilling. Move the drill up and down a bit to make sure
you get a nice even covering, just in case the sandpaper doesn't get it
all just sitting in one spot.
5: Brush any metal shavings out and test fit the bayonet. The ideal fit
should be something that you can slip on and rotate over to the locked
position, and rotate back and pull off using only your hands. It
shouldn't rattle any at any point, but it shouldn't be difficult to
remove by any means.

For me this took about five seconds of drilling. The inside of the
bayonet is nice and smooth and even, and it slips on and off with ease.
Even so, when it is on, it's perfectly secure and I could easily stab
dirty capitalists until the cows come home.

ALSO: BOOKMARK THIS LINK: http://7.62x54r.net

Discuss!

[Cyrano 4747]

TFR recently asked about the difference between hex and round receivers. Here's the run-down. It's a bit of a sketch of the issue, but outlines the major points:

Hex receivers were made from 1891 until sometime in the 20s or early 30s and round receivers after that. I forget the exact details, but it has something to do with the manufacturing methods used - basically the round ones were faster and easier to make.

Some people like the hex receivers more because the over all finish tends to be a bit better, mostly due to the fact that a LOT of round receivers were made during WW2 when everyone on both sides was cutting all sorts of corners, especially on cosmetic issues like finish, to get guns out the door faster. On the other hand, I think a lot of those war-era Mosins have a certain charm to them, with their barely finished exteriors, in a "holy shit there's Nazis ten miles from the factory, get some rifles built fucking NOW" sort of way.

As far as the mechanical function of them they're basically identical. Hypothetically, I suppose, if you were comparing two mosins that had never been re-arseneled a hex receiver would probably be a bit more better fitted and a bit more accurate. That said, after all the re-arseneling that these guns went through and god knows how many years of use and abuse it's a moot point - just inspect any Mosin you want to buy to make sure the rifling is good and sharp and the chamber isn't buggered. The cumulative effects of 50-100 years of use, storage, etc. is going to have far more impact on how the gun shoots for you at this point than any minor corners that might have gotten cut (or not cut) during WW2.

[Clinotus]

Finally.

http://devisualis.com/images/stuff/look/tworussianswalkintoabar.jpg

[Fang]

Those are beautiful--especially the bolts in the white. They look to be in great condition, although I bet there's quite a bit of cosmoline lurking in the corners to mess with your filthy capitalism.

[Nickle]

Be cautious of any M91's (or 1891's) you find. The M24 Finn (highly desirable, and worth much more than an M91) looks just like the M91, but will have a different barrel. If your M91 has a SIG barrel, you've got an M24.

[Cyrano 4747]

m24s are also significantly shorter than the m91 and have different stock profiles north of the trigger guards, as well as a few more minor changes.